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Post by Calm Mutant on May 27, 2017 15:36:11 GMT -8
Do multiple arms allow additional attacks in any way such as the way a bladed limb does. As in if I have a mutant with four arms and I have a sword in each arm, do I get four attacks? The reason I ask is because the multi-skullock in the Muddy Mayhem adventure get an additional attack for each arm they have and they have a one handed weapon in each hand.
Going hand in hand with that do pincers, tailed, any mouth based mutations such as jaws and mandibles, horns, tentacles (as in you gain a tentacle attack per tentacle) or anything else that adds an offensive physical implement like this add additional attacks?
Thank you for your time.
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Post by timberriault on May 27, 2017 17:27:06 GMT -8
Okay so the rules for this are a bit scattered everywhere but I can give you the simple break down.
Your character has a handedness, if your right handed and have 2 right hands you would get an extra attack with that right hand at no penalty. You can still only attack 1 target in melee, until you've increased your Attack Rate at Rank 7 to a 2, which doubles all available Melee attacks.
The character can make 2 attacks with their off hand against the same melee target with a -20sv, Pg16 TME Very bottom, penalty.
If the Character has Martial Arts as an Unarmed Skill Pg56 TME, they can make unarmed melee attacks with the off hand, but still only 2 a round regardless of their amount of limbs, however they can make these attacks against different melee targets.
But, if we got to Pg45 at Knife Fighter we see a special note about characters that are ambidextrous, granting them the use of multiple arms if they have them to make multiple attacks. An Ambidextrous character at rank 1 knife fighter would have 8 melee attacks against 1 target, at Rank 7, they would have 16.
They may seem like "WOW, holy crap they can kill anything!!" I just want to remind, like I always do, that Agility and Dodge only work against a target the player can see and perceive, so a target stabbing them from behind only has to contend with their armor, and gets a large bonus to their SV.
Hope this helps!
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 27, 2017 17:56:31 GMT -8
Aaaaaaah I see. So you are saying it more opens up an additional "right hand slot" in things that it can carry. Like say a rank seven character with four arms can have a two one handed weapons that they can use with no penalty in one turn.
I also apperiacte you meaning that it doubles ALL melee attacks. As under the cybernetic pincer it mentions that it gives an additional attack and upon reaching rank 7 you would get two attacks per pincer. Going by this logic of "additional melee attacks get doubled at rank seven" a character with two normal arms, one bladed appendage and mandibles would get two attacks with the normal arms, two with the blades appendage and two with the mandibles. Or at least that's how I view it considering how things like claws would get four attacks.
I also like you mentioning that having a ton of attacks doesn't make a player invincible by any means. All those attacks mean nothing if none of your attacks can penatrate armor and you can hardly melee someone 12 times if you get pumped full of lead or are convulsing on the ground from mind crush. In this game as it is so lethal, fighting smart is always the best plan.
A well written and timely response thank you.
Continuing this slightly would you say that tentacles (per tentacle) and tails provide additional attacks or not? In my personal house rules I would say so as practically every other physical growth like mutation provides an additional attack (and I saw another forum post saying that they do here but I can't remember where) but I would like to hear others thoughts on this.
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Post by timberriault on May 28, 2017 16:54:18 GMT -8
As long as that mutation doesn't interfere with the normal use of a limb then it also generates an additional attack, such as with a mutation that allows you to shoot energy from the characters hands, would negate the use of that hand for any additional attacks.
Also, a Tail Attack can attack a different, and in most cases must, target, usually an NPC that is behind or to the left or right of a character. Any mutation that results in an extra limb is also subject to the Martial Arts Skill, and benefits from any bonus that would provide, even a pincer claw or razor talons and an alligators tail, as I currently understand it, it would be up to the GM to expand on the amount of attacks Martial Arts grants if a character had multiple limbs, I'd say give them 1 extra attack per extra limb when using Martial Arts, meaning a 4 armed character would have +2 attacks with only 1 point in martial arts, and 8 attacks when at Rank 7.
Shooting never gets any additional attacks from Rank 7, just want to make that clear now. Shooting is deadly powerful, a salvo of muskets at 100m will normally cut a party up pretty bad being d20 damage a hit and in many of my encounters I've had sharpshooters aiming and picking off the other shooty characters during ambush attacks on the road.
Don't get discouraged if a character with knife-fighter and a lot of strength is doing on excess of 200dmg a round, I've got 2 whirling dervishes of death in my current group and they still get pretty badly banged up and have to take time to heal after an encounter with Warmorts totting assault rifles and grenades.
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 28, 2017 20:59:26 GMT -8
Ha ha yeah I'm not worried at all about characters being too strong with how lethal the game is if anything it makes it more fun. In my current group I have a jaguar man Mutant (shell, massive muscles) that has 138 strength so he does a hilarious amount of damage on a maul and this is in addition to a jaguar man's hilariously good stealth and speed.
But that is interesting to know that shooting doesn't get doubled. Is it the same for relic weapons (as those are more balanced by ammo scarcity) or is it just for muskets because of how slow muskets are in general?
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 28, 2017 21:03:35 GMT -8
Ah sorry for the double post but I forgot to add. You said "so long as mutation doesn't interfere with the normal use of a limb" would this include things like mind crush? Even though it seems obvious I would just like to double check and make sure I have the correct understanding because if memory serves most does with mind crush cannot both use it and another attack.
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 28, 2017 21:51:16 GMT -8
Gah! Sorry for posting three times, I should honestly just get my account all ready so I can just edit posts. I found where it clearly states that "Melee attacks" go up to two so never mind on asking after relic weapons. So instead I want to do a little recap to be totally sure I understand everything already covered (beyond those two posts of mine above)
1. All additional limbs grants the user 1 additional attack to make against a target provided the "limb" is not in use. So for example if someone has 2 bladed appendages, horns, and a two handed sword (using both normal limbs) can make 4 attacks one a single target
2. You can technically attack twice a round if you have two one handed weapons by the off handed weapon has a penality (unsure sorta confused on how your multi-limb was explained). And this is for everything from two attacks with two one handed melee weapons to two guns, as gunslinger mentions using two one handed weapons at once and how it gets rid of the offhanded penalty.
3. Going by #2 a right sided four armed rank 1 Mutant can make 2 right sided attacks a round with one handed weapons at no penalty and two left sided ones with a penalty for a total of 4 attacks (two normal and two with a penalty)
Beyond here is when we get into territory we haven't really covered yet but would like to go ahead and ask
4. If you have additional multiple limbs you can forfeit that limbs "attack" for a round to parrying instead of attacking so long as it's the proper type of mutation/cybernetic implant mentioned in the parry section. Rank 7 allows you to both attack and parry with said limb in one round.
5. You can divide the melee attacks you do have between different melee targets. So going back to the example at #1 said mutant could divide those 4 attacks between 4 enemies if they wanted.
6. Using two one handed ranged weapons is the only way to go beyond 1 ranged weapon a round. Shoulder mounted stuff as well so a cyborg gunslinger with two pistols and a shoulder mounted turret could fire all three in one round in a devastating barrage of death.
7. If your head counts as a limb for "additional attacks" as in if you can breath fire, have horns, and have mind crush you can only do one of those three attacks a round. And upon rank 7 you would only get 2 horn attacks as the mental attack of mind crush and flame breath count as "ranged."
This is more or less what I have grasped from what you have said so far plus some questions of my own. I am sorry if I am incredibly wrong and sorry again for the now triple posts. I'm about to start my first game so I'm rather nervous and would like to be completely sure I am right about the number of attacks.
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Post by timberriault on May 29, 2017 0:48:08 GMT -8
Everything you wrote is exactly how I've interpreted the rules and has been playing the game except when choosing multiple melee targets.
A single character can only attack a single target in melee unless the attacking limb, such as in some tails, cannot target an opponent in front of the character.
Only with the Martial Arts Skill can a character make attacks against multiple targets without any special mutations of cybernetics. I believe this is intentioned to balance the damage production vs using special actions and keeping closer to allies and promote teamwork.
Now, as for having multiple heads, I've been having it done that a multi headed mutant can melee attack as many targets as the heads can individually pay attention to, so a three headed mutant can attack upto 3 targets providing they have enough melee attacks to do so.
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 29, 2017 5:59:53 GMT -8
Alright! Thanks for your help man I feel confident and ready to run a game now.
My only other question on this topic is that I imagine kicking doesn't provide an additional attack but rather would replace the attack with one "hand" on the appropriate side.
I do have another beyond that question but it's on a totally different topic which I will save for another thread once I get totally logged in.
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Post by Calm Skeleton on May 29, 2017 6:31:53 GMT -8
OH and I imagine the same rules apply to enemies with two hands properly (basically humanoids and robots with multiple hands). Like a charging warmort berserker with an axe in each hand would get two attacks against a single enemy
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Post by timberriault on May 29, 2017 7:09:29 GMT -8
If hazard to say your correct on the berserker Warmort, as I do the same when they have cybernetics randomly.
Hope you get all logged in and please update us with how the game goes!
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