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Post by GreyKatana on Jun 3, 2014 16:48:53 GMT -8
Hi guys, I just can't seem to locate the page in the rulebook where it explains what the Rate number does for a Relic firearm.
Also is there a difference between burst fire and single shot? It seems that only the SMG can do both which is odd.
Thanks.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 4, 2014 6:44:30 GMT -8
Howdy greykatana.
Cool profile pic.
If I understand you correctly,
On the bottom of pg 99, the Archaic Weapons Listing states
"..a backslash under Rate shows a fraction, with 1/2 meaning one shot every second round, or 1/4 meaning one shot every fourth round, which reflects weapons that are slower to reload, cock, aim and fire."
On pg 100, the Relic Weapons Listing details some of the same info, but has to add more for ranges, different ammo types, etc. I'm guessing that he just ran out of room, so I handle it the same.
Other games I've played have burst/spray/single shot rules and each one handled it differently.
As I understand it, ME has an uncomplicated version, but it works.
The sub-machine gun can be set to single or burst fire, but it takes one round to switch.
The main theme seems to be ammo conservation. You can shoot once with the sub-machine gun or switch to auto and you must shoot 5 times.
This doesn't grant any bonus or penalty for SV or damage.
We've made up some House Rules for our games (check out pg 108) and there might be something "official" in the expanded rules supplement, but nothing I could find in the core rules.
Hope that helps.
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Post by GreyKatana on Jun 4, 2014 9:27:11 GMT -8
OK, so it wasn't me that missed something. I guess that the Rate meant that you could do multiple attacks per round but it is never stated anywhere clearly in the rulebook.
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Post by rexbannon on Jun 5, 2014 10:19:01 GMT -8
Thats correct greykatana! i noticed it as well. Good catch boss! hopefully like Prov13 said there will be new rules for it in the expansion rules set to come out.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 6, 2014 7:25:41 GMT -8
I've mixed feelings on ROF. My players (and probably you guys) know far more about this than me. After I did a little research, maybe we really do need some burst rules. www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/submachineguns/sub_machine_guns.htmSqueezing off 2 shots in 3 seconds with an "auto pistol" is an easy game mechanic. (This should be called a semi-automatic pistol, in my humble opinion.) OK, this is 2 attk/rnd in the traditional, melee sense. Gotcha. Realistically, should a semi-auto pistol be something like.. 2shots/rnd/point in WE? (1/rnd/point could work just as well. You'd still run out of ammo soon enough.) Not that real life has any business being in an RPG. Now for sub-machine guns: Sure, you can get 5 shots/rnd per RAW. I have ruled all 5 shots must be in the same cone of fire. IMHO, It would be hard to shoot someone far left, then far right and then another elevated target right in front of you with 5 separate shots. The gun is firing a burst. That example would be a lot of stray bullets in between. Also, what if all shots are to one person? Let's say you kill them with the first 1-2 shots. This occurs frequently for one of my players; Shock, a borg with heavy machine gun arm, lot's of WE skill. I rule that he still has to roll for the other shots. The gun shoots 5 times whether you want to or not. (But the number of rounds fired should be higher.) Real world, actual rate of fire is hampered by technical difficulties/heat. Heat leads to weapon failure/fumble and you'll also quickly run out of ammo. But for a few combat rnds, you would be able to "pray and spray" or as another player puts it "have a MAC 10 moment; 'cause a moment is all you need". We could have a 10%/30%/50% clip bursts, or each gun could have its own. But then, you'd have to determine how many hit and where-and then there's damage.. 10% x 3 30% x 10 50% x 20 Just an example. Stray shots could be handled like on pg 108 and suffer the immediate strike penalty; just a thought. Another way to look at it is to just use the rules in the book, assume the ROF is just the number of rolls you make (not actual bullets shot) and tell the players when the clip is empty. Making a PER HC with +1/WE in that weapon could tell them exactly; or something. Anyone else have thoughts on this? |
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Post by SavageGM on Jun 6, 2014 7:53:05 GMT -8
"Another way to look at it is to just use the rules in the book, assume the ROF is just the number of rolls you make (not actual bullets shot) and tell the players when the clip is empty."
This is what I use and even with ROF 3 I've seen 2 shots miss with over 40% chance on each shot. I also try to stick with it to "reward" the relic or implant in use. Guns are deadly, most very accurate and to get a relic gun is a big deal imo. Cyborgs get easier chance to get such a destructive weapon but I offset cyborgs with intolerance or singling them out by adversaries. Relics using PCs should be singled out by raiders and anyone that sees the worth of the weapon. I've never been a big fan of "balanced characters" per say because people aren't balanced in real life. While a ROF 5 gives a lot of chance to hit, imo it should hit unless shot blindly. Enemies both PC and GM controlled should react accordingly to seeing such weaponry if their minds can understand such a threat. Ducking, hiding behind cover, even falling prone should be done at all times versus such weapons.
Also it keeps the combat fast, maybe not balanced but that's ok for me.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 6, 2014 8:07:38 GMT -8
Gotcha.
Although a bit off topic, but related, I also think borgs should be more affected by their implants.
Maybe reduce WIL by a certain number per implant if they fail a WIL HC. The HC could get progressively worse because WIL is reduced. I thought the APP penalty for each implant would work out fine.
WIL and APP could be used as a "reaction mod" for other people they meet.
After so many implants, it might be harder to relate to "normal" people. Also, the more machine parts, the closer you might be related to Mech factions and who knows if you're a spy for your robot masters..
WIL penalty could be treated like stun damage. It only affects your interactions with others, not your chance to quit smoking, etc.
There has to be some reaction when you pick up the kids from day care and the other parents notice your heavy machine gun arm.
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Post by SavageGM on Jun 6, 2014 8:14:07 GMT -8
Lol very true Providence! I think that is a good addition to the character type.
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Post by GreyKatana on Jun 9, 2014 9:18:25 GMT -8
I'm tempted to house rule burst fire with something inspired from Call of Cthulhu.
I'm not sure I love making multiple attack rolls, really slows down combat when someone unleashes 10 rounds from a machine gun.
It would work like this: Roll one attack, if it hits roll a dice to know how many of the bullets actually hit the target (if firing 10 rounds use a d10, 5 rounds roll a d6 and reroll 6s, etc...). Then roll damage for the bullets that hit.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 9, 2014 9:43:31 GMT -8
I'm tempted to house rule burst fire with something inspired from Call of Cthulhu. I'm not sure I love making multiple attack rolls, really slows down combat when someone unleashes 10 rounds from a machine gun. It would work like this: Roll one attack, if it hits roll a dice to know how many of the bullets actually hit the target (if firing 10 rounds use a d10, 5 rounds roll a d6 and reroll 6s, etc...). Then roll damage for the bullets that hit. GreyKatana, I think that works well for 3, 5 and maybe 10 rnd bursts. It's easy to use in a game. If even more bullets are fired in a burst (15,20,30+), would you use a % of shots fired for how many hit? The target would have to be pretty close and your weapon dang steady for them all to hit. I'd guess that no grouping is tight enough for the entire burst. That's what led to my % of clip idea, above. |
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Post by GreyKatana on Jun 9, 2014 15:28:15 GMT -8
Yeah I agree with you Prov. I didn't factor increasing recoil into account mainly for simplicity's sake.
How about, one roll for the whole burst but to know how many bullets hit (if any at all) you subtract from your SV an increasing amount.
So...
1st bullet at -5%
2nd at -10%
3rd at -15%
4th at -20%
etc...
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Post by aardvark892 on Feb 9, 2018 20:15:03 GMT -8
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