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Post by maxstone on Sept 26, 2013 16:50:43 GMT -8
In our last game night the group encountered a (randomly rolled) big group of bipedal rats. There were 69 of them and many carried relics and bows. The enemy leader ordered to fire at will on the PCs and one was killed, the rest was badly injured but managed to run away. Now that one of my friends is without a PC, how should I behave? If I keep creating new PCs, then what's the point of dying? Unless all of them die together the "mission" will never end or fail, am I right?I thought that maybe I should limit the Rank advancement of new PCs in order to give more importance to the survivors of the original group. Or set their maximum rank at the current higher RANK in the group -5, to keep it still dynamic but significantly lower than the others. What do you do in this cases guys? I really need help on this!!
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Post by providence13 on Sept 28, 2013 7:27:05 GMT -8
First of all, 69 Rats.. Damn! Whatever you decide, will work out one way or another. Players show up to game! Dying shouldn't interfere with that. I'd let them roll new characters. In fact my 2 players have 2 characters each. Having back up characters is highly recommended in the rules. (We had another player adding 2 more characters but he dropped without a word and the 2 dedicated players were fine with that.) Never be afraid to kill characters. What level do you start new characters in an existing game? I've done it different ways in different games. For TME, Rank advancement is so fast, starting them at Rank 1 shouldn't be a problem. A new character will advance about 2 or 3 to 1 compared to the rest of the PC's. In other games, where level/skill advancement is different, you might want to start at 1/2 or the same as everyone else. Every GM will have a different opinion on this. Some are die hard and believe everything must be earned, so they always start at the beginning, no exceptions. I feel that the PC's should always have a way out. You can always run away. 1> If they decided to jump 69 Ratlings, then give them hell! The odds were 3:1, I hope there were over 20 characters counting NPC's. Otherwise they all should have probably died. 2> If they got jumped by 69 Ratlings.. my players might respectfully ask after the game, "So, 69 guys all made their stealth rolls, huh? If you just wanted to kill us, you should have said so." I feel it goes hand in hand with "what happens if someone can't make the game?". Maybe you can work it into the story that they had a cold, stayed to protect the camp or wanted to spend time developing their Erotic Arts skill. They won't have the same EF's as the rest of the group. Eventually, PC's might be at different Ranks. For me, that's not a big deal.
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Post by maxstone on Sept 28, 2013 9:52:02 GMT -8
Thanks a lot Providence13 ! I always have fears about killing PCs because of the affection we develop for them. I think this can be quite common to inexperienced GMs like me. We started playing with only one PC each,to keep things simple, so the connection is strong. We also started calling each other with in game names . In the last session PCs were attacked by 14 tusk lizards and I let em escape , even changing some rolls. Otherwise it would have been certain death and I just didn't want it. After that , travelling at night on a chariot in the rocky badlands, PCs spotted the 69 rats quite close and immediately decided to change direction and run. I decided that the rats could have one round to stop them and , in case they couldn't do it, stop firing to save bullets. Johnny was killed in this action. You suggest to just create other PCs after one dies and don't apply penalties, right? But one can ask himself why carry on the old mission if no one cares or isn't involved anymore (talking about main quest). I don't know, I'd like them to care about their PCs life and do everithing possible to save them. But if they have unlimited "lives" they can just keep dying untill a super mutant with 130 end is rolled. Thanks again for the talk . I liked a lot your sentence : "Never be afraid to kill characters." . Should be obvious, but it's not! At least for me.
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Post by providence13 on Sept 28, 2013 21:28:34 GMT -8
(The following is overheard in the local tavern, gunsmith, bordello, or pie eating contest the characters frequent.) "Dude! I heard there was this group of diggers who fought almost 70 rat-men". "Yeah, well I heard it was 170 and it was all hand to hand". "Nah, man. It was just one gunslinger who.." "There you go again with that gunslinger crap! We've already established that with reload times and ammo carrying capacity.." "Well, there was that berserk cockroach with too many damn pistols in the last town.." "Guys, shut it! Secure that, right now. Word is one of those diggers is alive. We're forming a rescue party and..." The Wastes are harsh and unforgiving. An entire team could perish. What if they were lucky enough to get stories in the random rumor tables. Someone will had seen, heard or just wrongly guessed the story. My players would love that kind of stuff. Dead or alive. ("He's talking about my last character!..") If the player's motivations change during the adventure, or even the characters themselves, the game can still go on. Work with each player to establish "why I'm here". They can all have different reasons for being there. They might be wrong about each other's reasons. Everyone at the bus stop wants to get on the bus. They all have different places to go and different reasons for being there.
If the players are getting that much into their characters, you must be doing a great job! It's the perfect time to remind them of safety in numbers.
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Post by rexbannon on Sept 29, 2013 5:46:25 GMT -8
Im an old school d&d player. In my games as harsh as it may sound if you die and you have only one character then you start again from scratch. In d&d you start off with one character and because of your charisma can get a certain amount of henchmen. This henchmen are always lesser level then the main pc and if the pc dies he is encouraged to take ne of these henchmen as his new main pc. In TME players need backup from other players or you will die quickly. I understand why you went with only one character per pc but this game is one of attrition from the beginning. Its not if you will die during a game its when will you die during a game and how can you use the other players and characters at your disposal to avoid it. I play very methodically and give my players every opportunity to escape but if they choose to stay and fight then they know if they die they have to deal with it.
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Post by maxstone on Sept 29, 2013 7:46:31 GMT -8
You're really helping me a lot guys, I'm still learning the art of GMing Your tavern tale is super cool Providence, I'll surely put it to use! I like the idea of having henchmen but as there's no CHARISMA in TME I could give them to those with high WILL and APP . Maybe WILL+APP/2 as new stat or the NEGOTIATING trait at page 46 HUB rules. Not sure yet. Having only one character per player makes the game faster and more dynamic I think ( we 're all kinda new to RPGs), and until now it worked out fine, but RANK 7 random encounters are BRUTAL guys! A couple extra hands come always in handy.
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Post by providence13 on Oct 1, 2013 6:07:30 GMT -8
Just now reading the tables...
Ratlings PC Rank #Enct 1-4 3d6 5-9 3d10+4 10+ 3d20+30
7 to 34 or 33 to 90 is a big difference for just 1 Rank; 9th to 10th. My group isn't Rank 10. Even if they were, 69 rats would kill them all. Heck, they would probably run from 15.
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Post by rexbannon on Oct 1, 2013 9:17:08 GMT -8
My group is full of die hards! They would all go down trying rather then run away. I cant decide if they are stupid or brave. Its the same thing every week though, if there is an encounter that i put out that the party should run away from they always attack ! Some how some way they manage to scrape thru it by the skin of there teeth but this only encourages them that they a invinceible. they are all going to die hard for being die hards and its not going to be a fun day for them but as GM i should bend a little to give them a chance to survive. My group takes advantage of this and goes for the glory every time. eventully i will not bend and its going to be bad news for all of them. They never learned that tactical retreats are sometimes neccsary. if the book says there is 90 ratlings then 90 ratlings are attacking the party.
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Post by maxstone on Oct 1, 2013 11:48:52 GMT -8
Woah, don't know why I was convinced it was from RANK 7 that PCs are considered "high level". Thanks, I'm going to re roll the encunters! to Rexbannon I'm surprised to hear your PCs always win battles and never run! From what you told us I understand your game world is particularly unforgiving.
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Post by rexbannon on Oct 1, 2013 12:26:39 GMT -8
I made a mistake at character creation that made the pcs very strong. So my world has become more brutal then the average TME game to compensate for the error and make the game challenging. Its also made them cocky but its fun when they are cocky because i can come up with villainous plans to challenge them. Also it forced me to really wrap my brain around the game mechanics and find the best possible way to exploit them before they could. Then share it wuth everyone here lol. Its all good we still have fun.
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Post by rexbannon on Oct 1, 2013 12:30:43 GMT -8
When i say they always win battles dont get me wrong they are hard fought battles were most of the pcs almost die but somehow finish the fight with just enough END to stand. The healing mutation is amazing and unless someone dies its hard to defeat a party of pcs that have someone with it.
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Post by providence13 on Oct 4, 2013 5:49:55 GMT -8
Woah, don't know why I was convinced it was from RANK 7 that PCs are considered "high level". Thanks, I'm going to re roll the encunters! to Rexbannon I'm surprised to hear your PCs always win battles and never run! From what you told us I understand your game world is particularly unforgiving. You could leave it like it is.. (You don't have to let the players know about the table.) Maybe everyone just thought he died. The ratlings might have tended his wounds and kept him alive. It could happen!
1) This unusually large tribe of rats might need him for breeding more slave stock.
2) Perhaps they have knowledge of ancient tech. They've tried to break into where it's stored but they need a different geneotype to access the lock..
3) This is likely the largest tribe in the area and are drawing too much attention from other groups. If they had a non-rat translator, someone to speak for them, they could trade with people from human tribes. You could start the next session by assuming a week has passed and the group was taking a few days to mourn their comrade. A local village is having a pie eating contest to raise money for Moaner victims suffering from crotch pox. That's when they hear of the reptiles and their captive. (Yeah, it's a silly idea, but this is just an example.)
You could re-roll the encounter and have them go through it all again. Or you could say he actually survived; the players have to find him and attempt a rescue. Or he could try to escape on his on. Whatever you decide, I'm sure that your group will have fun with it.
Nothing wrong with him just being dead either. Sends a nice message to the others. Be careful or else.
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Post by providence13 on Oct 4, 2013 6:36:35 GMT -8
"If I keep creating new PCs, then what's the point of dying? Unless all of them die together the "mission" will never end or fail..." This reminds me of an old joke with my group. I have spent hours, days even, designing a game for my players. On game day, I proudly display my lovingly designed and carefully researched map. After sitting through the flavor text and back story, the players point to a blank, unexplored section and say "Yeah, but what's over here!" Invariably, the group will explore an area you don't have ready. They will go "off the map" no matter how much you've designed and planned. The party could then find a series of tracks (GM's railroad tracks) or "trail of bread crumbs" that lead back to the planned adventure.* My point is that players will often wander, not complete a mission or do so many side quests that they forget what the main mission was. People will join the group, leave, die or retire.. As a story teller, I've succeeded if I can thread it all back together into a cohesive whole. I have to make a patchwork quilt of the game, my mistakes, their successes and get them interested without railroading them. They rarely admit to derailing campaigns.. Sometimes the mission will find them, whether they want it or not. * In an old fantasy game, the group had just entered an underground lair and decided that they should have completed another quest first. They wanted to back out and explore yet another place I didn't have ready. I actually just turned my dungeon map sideways or upside-down, changed some visual details and kept going as if they were in a new location. www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1144
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Post by maxstone on Oct 4, 2013 13:16:26 GMT -8
haha the pick is hilarious! I'll make some comics about our campaign too, as a cool extra after game.
At the moment of the PC's death he was with the others on a chariot so I stated he was no longer alive immediately after the doctor tried to help him ( he was at -17 ). In the end it was good , now players are much more careful and my friend ha a new PC. I think that starting again from LV one is too hard at this point, so I have to decide if letting him have some extra levels. How do you do Providence?
Talking about railroading... it's strange how sometimes I manage to have great ideas right when the players GO OUT of what I had planned! It's like building the world as we play it and it feels easier than pre arranging everything. But I understand this can be true only for small details and events. Having to invent a whole region on the spot is surely troubling!
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Post by providence13 on Oct 5, 2013 8:54:43 GMT -8
haha the pick is hilarious! I'll make some comics about our campaign too, as a cool extra after game. Talking about railroading... it's strange how sometimes I manage to have great ideas right when the players GO OUT of what I had planned! It's like building the world as we play it and it feels easier than pre arranging everything. But I understand this can be true only for small details and events. Having to invent a whole region on the spot is surely troubling! DM of the Ring was awesome. Some of the responses are almost as good as the comic. Shamus Young really tapped into the nerdgeist. Many, many hours of fun there. My players have said they like it when everything is on the fly. That's because I haven't had time to plan their demise. I'm just not as proud of the adventure.
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