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Post by rexbannon on Jun 26, 2013 5:55:01 GMT -8
So i had a question about the combat system because as a GM it seemed a little off to me. Ill give you a run down of the situtation and i ask you to please tell me if im running it wrong. I had the party of excavators meet up in a small trading town that i made up called Cacto town. Its located along the caravan route between pitford and overpass. Two of the characters in the group started out in the town as the sheriff and his deputy. The other characters were guards for a caravan that were passing through cacto town on their way to pitford. The Sheriff was having trouble with a gang of Reptos that were attacking the caravans leaving cacto town bound for pitford, so he hired the other players to assit him and his deputy to go and take care of the problem. the reptos hand a cave about a days travel from the town and the group travelled to the cave to attack them and rid cacto town of their presence. When combat began the reptos were 110 meters away from the party in hilly scrub covered badlands. I had the party roll for initiative and they won but were to far away to take action against the reptos. the cave entrance was guarded by two reptos that saw the party as they moved into attack range. I had the reptos retreat into the cave and wait for the intruders to enter the cave. then we rolled for initiative again, this time the reptos won. two of the reptos were close enough to engage characters in melee. I had the first character roll initiative against the repto but he lost and the repto attacked him and missed. Then it was his turn to attack the repto back and he missed. this is how the rest of the encounter went except for the players that used range weapons. I had them wait for the group initiative based side to shoot there weapons. The point im trying to make here is that initiative between individuals in melee seemingly breaks up the major combat round as far as whos turn it is. Like in dungeons and dragons or chess, im used to one side goes then the other side goes. I think that i am running it right that in this game one side goes, then lets say a melee combat starts between two characters, both sides in the mini combat make attacks, then the other side goes maybe starting another melee fight. what is the order in which a fight should happen? when a player and a monster begin melee combat do we roll that combat out for each character in the party as they happen and then the monsters go and do the same thing? im a bit confused as to how to operate the combat part of the game having played 1E AD&D for 12 years. The story and plot twist i have down pat.
example: 1. party rolls initiative and wins
2. three party members move and shoot guns at reptos and score hits and roll damage. 3. one party member moves into melee combat and rolls initiative against the repto and loses.
4. repto who won initiative attacks party member and scores a hit and does damage.
5. party member who lost initiative attacks repto back and misses.
6. reptos that lost initiative to begin with go and move in to make melee attacks against the players that shot them.
7. Etc, Etc. Etc.
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Post by rexbannon on Jun 26, 2013 6:44:58 GMT -8
Rate of fire?
In the hub book for character progression it shows on the table that player characters get additional attacks as they rank up. from one attack to two attacks, this i get and understand. What i dont understand is weapon rate of fire.
1. Take for example the sub-machine gun that has a rate of fire of 5, does that mean that the player attacks 5 times with that weapon and it counts as one attack?
2. Can the player shoot 1 bullet or does the player have to shoot all 5 bullets every time? 3. Does the player roll to attack once and then rolls the damage for 5 bullets hitting the target doing damage or roll each individual bullet? 4. When the player is of a rank that they have 2 attacks per combat round and they are using the SMG do they roll 10 bullets damage if they score two hits?
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Post by providence13 on Jun 26, 2013 7:03:28 GMT -8
One thing I like to keep in mind is the 3 sec rounds. This solved a lot of problems for us on what you can do in a round and when you have to roll init. Why did you ask for init when they were at 110m? Just asking. If the group wanted to take a shot or were trying to perform an action before their opponents, I'd ask for init. At that range, with neither side making ranged attacks, I'd just ask them to state actions/intentions. Now sometimes the PC's are try to beat each other's init, then I'd ask for a roll. The only time I use group init is when there is a forward observer, lookout, etc. Then everyone is as slow/fast as the guy who noticed the ambush, for example. If someone isn't in that combat, I don't ask for init unless they are trying to perform an action faster than someone in that combat. They just resolve the action. This way, it works best for me to ask for intentions and then init, if init is warranted. There's nothing wrong with party init. Everyone will have their own mods based on stats, implants, weapons, actions. Whatever works for your group. In the Mall of Doom, I use group init for moaners. Otherwise it'd take too much game time as the opposition is numerous. With the 3 sec round in mind, if someone wants to move their full movement, then that's their action for the round. With other games having rounds of 1 minute, 10 seconds, even 6 seconds, you can hear a player state their intent as "First I do this and then I do that and then I start prepping for something else.. Oh, I also save 10%Activity for any reactive defensive spell..". I really like the 3 second round because it's so clean and easy to manage/GM. I tell them "you basically get one quick action". Don't know if that helped but I appreciate the conversation.
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Post by rexbannon on Jun 26, 2013 8:08:38 GMT -8
Thanks that should help out a lot because with that in mind theres only so much you can logically do in 3 sec's. About the rate of fire do you have any anwsers?
I had the group roll for init at 110M because the sheriff character was on point since he knew where the repto cave was having dealt with them in the past. When they came upon the cave which is situated in an open but slightly hilly area in the badlands the reptos had a clear line of sight and could see the party coming. r so thats what i believe, im also not to clear on vision. How far can the average person see in this game? the sniper rifle has a range in KM but there is no chart or table that shows how far a person can see on average mutant or not. On a clear day with a bino-scope in an elevated postion overlooking lets say a desert you could easly see KM, but on a cloudy day at ground level in the midst of a lush mutated jungle your vision would be obscured. I guess what im saying is that after reading the entry in the hub book on how to run combat as a GM i was a little confused as to how far away init should be roled based on my assumption that it was called for as soon as the enemy was sighted or could see you. Who in this case would take action first?
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Post by providence13 on Jun 26, 2013 18:00:04 GMT -8
The Goal: Have fun. You are the GM. If you and the players are having fun. Keep up the good work! Zeroth Rule of Gaming: No rule need be included if it interferes/countermands or otherwise spoils the Goal. Most of my group moves around 5m/rnd. It would take about 20 rnds for them to cover 110m. For me, it doesn't really matter who goes first. At this distance, both sides might be acting at the same time, but they're not able/choosing to interact with each other at that range. (Some GM's might say that both sides always act at the same time but the side that wins init gets to resolve their actions first.) Now, lets say both sides have set up a howitzer and are trying to load, aim and fire at the other. I establish that it takes 3 rnds for both teams to fire on the other. Who goes first suddenly matters. Replace howitzer with which side can reload the .50 cal or laser carbine fastest; same thing. Did the reptos get a roll to notice the PC's? Do the PC's have Stealth? Reptos have a Perception of 21; low to average vs normal people, but I'll bet they don't get blinded by glare like people.. I'm surprised there isn't a horizon formula in the rules. The higher your eyes, the further you can see. d= 3.57√h distance to horizon is the product of 3.57 and the square root of eye height. OK, here's how I see it: At 1.7m, the horizon is 4.7km away. If your eye stalks are 2m above the ground, you can see 5km to the horizon. This is the absolute max because of the Earth's curvature getting in the way. You can't see details and I honestly don't know distances for details, but I'm guessing you can notice a person at 500m. It's a man, not a stop sign. Probably see a cat walking at 100m and a small bird at 10m. For each power of 10 distance or change in size/detail observed, I'd move it one letter on the HC chart. That's just an idea.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 26, 2013 19:08:45 GMT -8
Rate of fire?
1. sub-machine gun has a rate of fire of 5, does that mean that the player attacks 5 times with that weapon and it counts as one attack? As I understand it, yes, kind of.. The weapon can attack at it's rate of fire. It can't attack more than the ROF/rnd.
(For me, I really think there should be less accuracy with each attack. If you're shooting a smg, each shot is moving the gun off target. This wouldn't apply for lasers..)
2. Can the player shoot 1 bullet or does the player have to shoot all 5 bullets every time? The way we play it, you can choose to fire up to the max rate for that weapon. You set it from semi to automatic. (I've kicked around the idea of burst firing. You'd roll one modified strike and have a range of damage between the lowest for one bullet and the highest for all 5.. but it's not finished. )
3. Does the player roll to attack once and then rolls the damage for 5 bullets hitting the target doing damage or roll each individual bullet? I have my players roll to strike and damage for each bullet fired. 4. When the player is of a rank that they have 2 attacks per combat round and they are using the SMG do they roll 10 bullets damage if they score two hits?
That's a great question! I feel that the added attacks at Rank 7 is for melee attacks only. "In addition, like any melee weapon, rank advancement eventually means 2 attacks per round, per pincer (at 7th rank)." from TME pg 90, Pincer implant. Also, check out Called shots and multiple attacks per round. TME pg 108. Bereserker Rage pg 61.
*As an example: Bear mutants get 3 melee attacks/rnd (pg 26). Martial arts bear mutants would have 6 (I think). 7th Rank Martial Arts bear mutants receive 12.. What if they go berserk? None of this has any bearing on how quickly the firing mechanism thingy on a gun takes to reset itself and be ready for the next shot, or how quickly a laser carbine's flywheel can spin up to the rpm needed for the next shot/waste heat dumped so as not to melt the gun. (Or whatever reason works for you.) *(I could be wrong in my assumptions. It's just how I read it.)
One of the PC's has Massive Mandibles. This gives him an extra melee attack (with mandibles) each round. He also has a horn on his head. This gives him an extra melee attack (with his horn) in addition to his Brawling melee attack; 1/rnd. When he goes Berserk, it's a freakin' mess. But he doesn't get any extra attacks with his auto pistol. It can only fire 2/rnd.
I could be wrong about all of this but as long as the players show up there'll be game!
If you can, look at some of the other questions/post I have. I'd appreciate any feedback from a fellow GM.
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Post by rexbannon on Jun 27, 2013 7:15:33 GMT -8
Bear martial artist? that would be Insane! The pitford champions arena would never be the same! About the guns, thats what i thought as well thank you for confirming it. It seemed a bit crazy to me in terms of the amount of damage that could be done with an SMG at high rank. Sure i'll take a look at some of your other posts and try to help as best i can. I got to say though that your break down of the telekinesis power was impressive, i dont know if i could do any betterr then that.
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Post by providence13 on Jun 28, 2013 8:15:12 GMT -8
Yeah, the bear PC sounds a bit over the top! Maybe we'll get an Official Ruling when the author has some free time. Under Knife Fighter on pg 45 TME, you get 2 knife attacks/rnd. Then at 7th Rank, it says you get 3 att/rnd. Is this based on the limits of the weapon? On further thought- It makes sense that whatever natural attacks you start with, Brawling would not give any additional attacks. Whether unskilled (Brawling 0) or skilled in Brawling, you have the same att/rnd until 7th Rank where you get 1 more. Our bear starts with 3/rnd which is the same as everyone else's 1/rnd. At Rank 7, he has 4/rnd. With this in mind- If MA only adds 1 additional attack to your original number of 1, Then it's 4 total to our starting bear. Then at 7th Rank, you get 2 more additional attacks. This would make our bear example 3+1 (Martial Arts and Rank 1) +2(Rank 7)=6 att/rnd. Now check out Allow Razor Claws on pg 85. You get 2 att/rnd. "When occurring as an implant on a creature, add as two new attacks if the beast isn’t already using claw or arm attacks, but, if the being already employs claw attacks, add +10 extra damage to the damage done by each claw" (instead of the 2 new attacks..). Does creature mean "creature" (pg 148-176) in the book? So a Reptilius with Alloy Claws would get 3 att/rnd because they start with 1; weapon OR bite but they don't start with claw attacks. So, a bear with alloy claws would only get +10 extra damage. At Rank 1, he'd have the normal 3 attacks (for ferocity) and any claw attacks get +10 damage. At Rank 1 with MA, he'd get 4 attacks (ferocity +1 MA attack) and all claws get +10 damage. At Rank 7 he has 6 aat/rnd (3+1+2). I think I've got it now. This post feels more in line with the rules than my crazy first example. (Cockroach PC's start with 5 att/rnd.. Just sayin'.)
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