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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 6:43:25 GMT -8
I have a PC that has the power burst mutation. In the description of the power burst it says that for 4 rounds per rank the PC rank increase his strength 4x the PC'S streght value. It also states that it can be used in combat using your fists. This doesn't make sense to because average human strength is a 25 right? That would make you strength 100 for four rounds, this i understand. What i dont understand is the PC in my game has a strength of 75 and when he uses STR burst he has a STR of 300. This means when he punches an opponent he does d6+92 dam. This seems like extreme overkill to me. That much damage kills almost everything in the game in a couple hits. Would he crush his hands if he punched with that much STR?
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 7:00:00 GMT -8
If a normal str punch is having a trait value Of 25 , then what would be the amount of force behind a str of 300? Woyld it be like a car hitting you? Because if you drive a car into something or someone in the game it does d100 damage, thats almost the same! So how does the mutants fist not become a bloody pulpy stump if he punches with that much force?
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Post by providence13 on Jul 21, 2013 8:53:34 GMT -8
rexbannon, you bring up a good point. If this were a superhero game, it might not be too powerful. Then I'd expect someone to get mad and throw a car or punch through a steel door. Come to think of it, if you want a loose and free Thundarr the Barbarian style of game, this mutation would be great as it is. RAW (rules as written,) Strength Burst is crazy powerful; too much for my games. Every game I've ever ran needed some tweaking to make it mine. Even my players have commented on other systems, "wouldn't it be easier/faster/smoother/simpler to just..". If you think Strength Burst is outrageously powerful, here are some alternatives.. 4 x DMG: An easy quick fix would be to give the deviant 4x damage or move the HC Letter Code four steps easier for Strength checks. Not 4 x Trait Value. Str x 2: Another option would be to double Strength value instead of the x4 in the book. Then it's still a powerful mutation! Lower Duration: 1 or 2 rounds/Rank still allows heroic feats of strength but would limit combat options. Price of Power: Strength Trait is 4x (or 2x or 3x, whatever works in your game) but the deviant is weak as a kitten for the same number of rounds the mutation was used. "Weak as a kitten" could be 1/4 Trait Value or whatever multiple you used. "Sure I can rip the steel plated door off its hinges, but you guys will have to fight the guards and carry me out of here." (Alternatively, you could lower Accuracy by a similar amount. All muscles twitching and you can't hold your hands steady while pumped up.) Diminishing Returns: As price of Power above, but the burst of added strength quickly fades. 4x the first rnd, 3x second rnd, 2x on rnd 3, 1x rnd 4, .5x rnd 5, .25 rnd 6... Realistic: Leverage- "So what if you've got x4 Strength? You still have no leverage to pry open that steel door. You need something to act as a lever.." Energy- "Yes, you can bend the metal bars. The energy required to distort the steel heats it up so much that you take damage from the searing hot metal." (Bending a paperclip back and forth until it breaks can really burn soft skin. Bull in a china shop- "After hitting your opponent with your razorsword, using your 300 Strength, it breaks into 7 pieces. You aren't wearing a helmet are you? Let's roll to see where they go." Everything they use would break. (Don't get me started on the rules saying crossbows and bows get more damage from higher Strength. You might get a little but bend it back too far and you break it.) Energy return-Make them take 1/2 damage from any Strength bonus over 100. There's a reason boxers wear gloves. Change the Chart: Instead of +2, make it +1 after 150, or whatever... Whatever you decide, even if it's to use the RAW, have fun. Every group has different needs.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 10:16:03 GMT -8
Thanks providence 13! You always give the best answers. We played yesterday and the PC in question got uptight when i told him his hands would be pulped if you tried to attack the J22 samurai warbot with his 300 STR. It would be like two cars in a head on collision. There is going to be some incredible dam to both car that are made if metal, not flesh and bone like the players hand. He was pretty mad .
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Post by providence13 on Jul 21, 2013 10:46:38 GMT -8
If I may, that reminds me of another game I ran where the player had an idea for his character and felt the GM (me)was 'nerfing' his dice-given powers.. I understand the realism you want in the game. I enjoy that myself. The player might want something too. If you don't mind the discussion, we don't have to assume he punches the 'bot. He could kick it, crippling a leg or knock it over. If we assume 300 Strength can lift 300 kg with one arm, then it shouldn't be impossible to knock over a 3m tall 320kg 'bot. You could use a form of grapple rules and let him grab an arm, or leg, or head. Since you're just making a grab vs damaging attack, the robot's full DV might not help (TME pg 39). His Strength is 300 vs 135 for the 'bot. Even with no skill, he should be able to do some serious damage. If you, the GM, rules that he can't punch, he could still grab an arm (or head, leg, weapon..) and keep twisting until it pops off! If he keeps making his grapple rolls, the 'bot could be immobilized (at least partly) and take damage each round. If my player wants to use his god-like Strength on a 'bot, I would try and help him find a way.
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Post by providence13 on Jul 21, 2013 11:14:04 GMT -8
Arm bars, leg locks and choke holds might not be considered "full punching damage" but I hear they can be effective. I don't have much experience there, thankfully. You don't have to give him the full 108 damage bonus (or whatever it is) for 300 Strength just because he grabs its arm. But that robot might not be able to move that arm. I wouldn't let him totally destroy the entire 'bot with one hit, but he probably crippled whatever part he grabbed. Total Endurance is 160. Over half of that might be main body, in my mind. That leaves less than 100 for 4 limbs and the head. I think the PC has a decent chance to rip it limb from limb. The problem I see, is while the PC is overpowering this particular warbot, it can hit him with the stun pistol eye, power up the freaking laser sword or use a dual laser carbine turret, sub-machine gun or rockets! It gets 2 melee attacks/rnd and has a force field. I'll bet it was a heck of a battle.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 14:28:54 GMT -8
The battle was pretty epic. There were so many PC's and NPC's against the one j22 that i had to add 2 light combots to the encounter to make it even. I ruled for may player that he could sweep the leg or grapple it like you were talking about with no penalty from his enormous STR. But if he wanted to make direct hits on something armor plated , 10% of the total damage his character rolled against the opponent would rebound onto him from hitting such a solid object. I also ruled that punching fleshy targets such as pure stock humans faces would give him no penalty.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 14:37:11 GMT -8
This PC got extremely lucky when randomly rolling characters. His secondary character has the healing hands mutation which has save the party countless times. Even should his martial artist with STR burst hurt his h s nds his other character can easily heal it since his willpower his high enough that he heals d20+20. One of my other players rolled extremely good ad well . He plays a mutnt cyborg with reflective armor and jet pack implants, along with four blade limbs. He is a wrecking machine. Between the two of them no module can handle there STR without modification. We still have fun though even if there are a few hicups that were made at chargen.
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Post by providence13 on Jul 21, 2013 14:53:32 GMT -8
10% of the total damage his character rolled against the opponent would rebound onto him from hitting such a solid object. I also ruled that punching fleshy targets such as pure stock humans faces would give him no penalty. Only 10% damage? He had nothing to complain about, in my humble opinion. The description of that 'bot mentions "heavy armor" about 4 times. As in "you don't want to punch this guy bare knuckled". Tough sounding party.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 15:18:10 GMT -8
I thought so too. This same character rolled so high on agility that after age, caste, and racial adjustments his agility is 138. He walks around in a leather jacket and normal clothes and has a DV -32 . I think he is trying to play him as billy jack lol. Funny thing is this character is a new addition to the group. A run away slave that was found outside the town of rust watch beaten to within an inch of his life an warring taters.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 21, 2013 15:25:17 GMT -8
The only other perks he has is a 75 STR , rank 4 martial arts, and the STR burst mutation. He is an escaped gladiator slave with bounties on his head. Its only a matter of time until the PC slips up and gets caught by a bounty hunter or worse gets his character killed. Im going to make it fun for him to play out dont get me wrong but this STR burst character breaks my game stability and i have ti make having him around a difficult decision for the party ti balance it out. Im hoping his main pc will sell him back into slavery .
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Post by providence13 on Jul 22, 2013 5:44:30 GMT -8
... after age, caste, and racial adjustments his agility is 138. Oh, yeah. Age modifiers. My group has only wanted to play in the Adult, 18-45, normal column so we haven't used age modifiers. One guy did misread it when he was doing chargen without me but I reminded him that the "Adult, 18-45" range has no mods. Billy Jack is one of my favorite movies. What if he had 3 arms or 2 heads... or mandibles! Hmmm.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 22, 2013 8:58:58 GMT -8
Then i screwed up and everybody got extra trait points because i gave them age modifiers. Damn it!
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Post by providence13 on Jul 22, 2013 9:10:23 GMT -8
Then i screwed up and everybody got extra trait points because i gave them age modifiers. Damn it! It doesn't have to be that way. Maybe you just rolled up exceptionally gifted PC's. If you want, just throw more at them or beef up the NPC's a bit. Nothing wrong with that. My players would want to keep going as is instead of reducing stats, after the fact.
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Post by providence13 on Jul 23, 2013 9:14:07 GMT -8
If I may, one thing that might help your heavy handed PC is just to get some padded metal gauntlets. Your game, your rules. Anytime I add a rule to a game that the PC's didn't know about in chargen I try to give them a way to still be their character. My players want to use the character's abilities. In our TME game, those abilities are totally random. I agree with your reasoning.
I've thought of adding a dazzle setting on lasers that can cause blindness if you don't pass an A,B,C, etc HC. I think it's realistic, but since they haven't been penalized this late in the game for their Laser Carbine, I don't feel it'd be fair.
I do make Randy Mandibles with his Heightened Attribute:Auditory make a HC whenever he's around a loud noise (like our Cyborg with a machine gun arm). The book (pg 68) says it's painful but doesn't give any real penalties, only bonuses. Failing the HC should at least cancel any bonuses and probably give penalties.
Didn't mean to hijack your post. I just wanted to give an example. Your game, your rules.
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