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Post by providence13 on Jun 10, 2013 8:57:03 GMT -8
Silver and old relic tech are valuable in these troubled times. When you need something that someone else owns, a peaceful method of exchange proves equitable for both sides. Money makes things easier to than carrying around a dozen blankets, riot shields or communicators to trade for a laser pistol. Other than bartering goods and services, silver is the defacto currency in TME. The books state major areas mint their own coins. This can lead to even more problems like different weights, coin shaving, hostile factions honoring/sabotaging each others currency, etc. In my games, I've also included old world coins into the silver standard. This is similar to FRPG's where a dungeon crawler finds a chest of coins not used in a century but still having value. Most relic coins convert to the same 1 silver coin and assumes that some form of coins will still exist in 150 years, or so. US $.50 cent pieces, quarters, dimes, $1 dollar coins are all 1 sp. Perhaps none of these coins will exist in the near future, but it's easy for me and my players to wrap our minds around the concept. This makes me wonder why plastics have so much value. Cultures assign value and having something that symbolizes status of the golden years of man will be in demand. Hanging a plastic doll in your hair, even with a few missing limbs might give you clout. Not only have you explored the ruins and lived to tell the tale, you returned with a reminder of the height of old civilization. But would trinkets of yore give the exchange of silver as listed in the books? Is there another use for plastics? Maybe recycling facilities are so advanced that different polymer qualities can be combined into one material; a major hurdle in recycling plastics today. In some ways, plastics are the backbone of today's civilization. Before we are born to after we die, we consume plastics. Energy is also a currency in TME with power cells used as money when available. The books don't list many reactors, RTGs (Radio thermic generators) or other forms of regenerating energy other than solar. The high efficiency of solar power in TME aside (I say they also get energy from IR as well as visible light - www.engadget.com/2008/02/02/infrared-solar-panels-even-work-at-night-but-cant-output-energ/ and web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/infrared-photovoltaic-0621.html ), power is life if you have relic technology. Scientists are beginning to use recycled plastics in batteries today. Maybe plastics are necessary in making the incredibly dense power cells of the future. (http://www.techradar.com/us/news/world-of-tech/batteries-that-charge-1-000-times-quicker-and-last-10-times-longer-1145705) This would neatly wrap up the value of plastic as it relates to an energy economy. It does assume hi-tech manufacturing facilities able to fabricate batteries.. Comments/critiques welcome.  |
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Post by terrypinkona on Jul 26, 2013 21:40:14 GMT -8
I imagine that the most valuable plastic items are those which allow people to store foodstuff safely and for longer periods of time. You would also suspect that refrigeration devices would be very valuable too. Also, anything in which water can be stored safely and purely is going to be in high demand, and plastic bottles obviously do this nicely.
The barter society is obviously the one that Excavators thrive in, so finding silver coins might be nice, but they will not hold a candle to finding a nice pair of combat boots or a heavy duty canteen.
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Post by rexbannon on Jul 27, 2013 6:34:52 GMT -8
Providence13 you never cease to amaze me! Me and my friend were just taking about this subject last night. We found it odd that there is so much low value,light weight loot to be found throughout the game. Take red crater for example: there are sugar packages on the floor ranging from 200-300 of them, worth a single silver peice. further more there seems to be a lot of junk in the world that is worth money. By junk im talking about our standards but in the future apocalypse its not junk but valuables instead. We were wondering how some one could number one: collect all of this loot, number two: transport all of these items to a dealer, number three: sell all of this junk turning it into silver peices. There seems to be way more valuable junk in the world then silver coins to buy it. This makes trade an absolute nesscesity in TME. even in large cities such as Pitford or overpass one could not find someone with thirty thousand silver pieces to buy all the junk you collected that is worth that much. The city would have to mint coins and buy the junk from you and even then this would probably bankrupt the city in the process. You would have to sell your junk slowly into the market place , waiting for the merchants to make there profit of the re-sales and then sell them more junk and repeat this process until you sold all of your junk. which could take a very long time in game. meanwhile your still adventuring waiting for the merchants to make more money so you can sell them stuff and your out there collecting even more junk. this adds up fast and the PCs will need some place to store all of this junk awaiting to be sold. the logistics of this economy is nightmarish to say the least and poses the question how does one sell everything they collect? surley the junk salesman in the podunk town your PCs start in or even walsave has 50-60k worth of silver coins laying around to buy all of the junk you brought back from excavating. Oh and dont even get me started on trying to sell the Osprey from beyond red crater. That ship would be priceless like the mona lisa in TME.
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Post by providence13 on Jul 27, 2013 7:15:09 GMT -8
I imagine that the most valuable plastic items are those which allow people to store foodstuff safely and for longer periods of time. You would also suspect that refrigeration devices would be very valuable too. Also, anything in which water can be stored safely and purely is going to be in high demand, and plastic bottles obviously do this nicely. The barter society is obviously the one that Excavators thrive in, so finding silver coins might be nice, but they will not hold a candle to finding a nice pair of combat boots or a heavy duty canteen. | Item | Description | Availability | Weight | Cost (sp) | | plastic necklace | multi color/shape | 15% d3 | 250g | 2d20+50 | | plastic bracelet | multi color/shape | 19% d6 | 100g | d20+30 | | plastic water btl | 1 liter w/cap | 87% d3 | 50g | 2d6+2 | | plastic milk jug | 4 liters w/cap | 43% d2 | 150g | 2d10+20 | | plastic water jug | 20 liters w/cap | 16% d2 | 1kg | 2d20+90 | | every food and | drink item on the | chart (pg 95) | including animals | 108 total max | | plastic loot pg145 | "plastic bits" | 3d6 | negligible.. | d20 each | | plastic straws | assorted colors | 200ct | | 20+d12sp | | various plastic | items from the | random horde | charts in TME | d6 to 1,000's |
terrypinkona, I totally agree that a useful plastic container should hold high value in TME. It does appear that any plastic holds high value, regardless of its use. The idea that someone is using recycling these materials into hi tech devices helped me reconcile the disparity. 1 empty large plastic water jug can probably buy you every food item on the chart. Wow! I wonder what a 1,000 sp plastic item is? Pink lawn flamingo? |
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Post by providence13 on Jul 27, 2013 8:27:09 GMT -8
Me and my friend were just taking about this subject last night... odd that there is so much low value, light weight loot to be found. There seems to be way more valuable junk in the world then silver coins to buy it. This makes trade an absolute nesscesity in TME. even in large cities such as Pitford or Overpass one could not find someone with thirty thousand silver pieces to buy all the junk you collected.. The city would have to mint coins and buy the junk from you.. Oh and dont even get me started on trying to sell the Osprey from beyond red crater. That ship would be priceless like the mona lisa in TME. In one module, maybe MOD, it talks about land being granted as a reward for rescuing important captives. The parcel of land already grows mutant broccoli and deviant corn, IIRC. (If I remember correctly.) Now that has value, especially if Walsave turns into the next Pitford; a possibility in the book. I'm all about the barter system and it makes sense in TME. I could see someone paying in horses, relic vehicles, shop spaces in Pitford, farmland in Overpass or Walsave, robots (!), slaves, etc. Maybe the laws of specific areas don't state that all transacted goods must be present, only 55% (or whatever). This could be a good thing. You can buy a house, land or herd of cattle without actually being there. What if you agree to the transaction and then find out that your just purchased 2-headed horses and 20 sheep are 3 days away? Too late, you've signed the contract which is legal and binding and Rangers have radioed proof of its existence. Now you have to go get them or pay to have someone bring them to you. This could be an adventure, itself. |
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Post by torenatkinson on Jul 27, 2013 12:16:58 GMT -8
Cool stuff. In my Mutilator campaign, the equipment sheet has three columns for currency: teeth, cigarettes and rolls of toilet paper. Equipment in Mutilator is listed with a teeth value. If a player kills a raider, for example, I have the player roll 1d30 for the number of teeth in the victim's head. I was thinking recently that when you roll up a character, you start with 1d10 + 22 teeth in your head. If you're out of bartering stuff, you can pull out your own teeth for currency. One of the mutations on the random mutation table is regenerating teeth (like a shark). |
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Post by providence13 on Jul 28, 2013 11:41:35 GMT -8
Teeth as $ sounds interesting..
After a bit of research, dog teeth have been used and now dolphin teeth are worth $2 US in some areas of South Pacific archipelagos.
Fascinating.
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Post by torenatkinson on Jul 29, 2013 22:31:29 GMT -8
If anyone has the patience and inclination to critique this, I would be grateful:
CURRENCY
The wasteland is primarily a barter-run society. Very few wasteland cultures use cash money made from paper or metal, preferring more practical items that have a simple, stable value, such as cigarettes, rolls of toilet paper, and ammunition.
Where a standard currency is used, human teeth are the preferred “coin.” In the old world, Papua New Guinea used dog's teeth for money between the years 1800 and 1960. In the post-cataclysm wasteland, a human tooth is accepted as money by almost all professional merchants and usually by anyone near a major community. Typically, only normal human teeth are used. Animal teeth and teeth from mutants that cannot pass as human are considered worthless except as a novelty.
In many cases a tooth is a tooth, but sometimes size does matter. Some merchants measure and weigh teeth, giving a value of 1 to a tooth weighing 1 gram or more, and smaller/lighter teeth in increments of one tenth. A large tooth in excellent condition might even be given a higher value than the standard tooth. In major metropolitan centers such as Citytown, the few money changers who can make a living at it call themselves “dentists.”
One might imagine that human teeth as currency provides humans with an inherent monetary value. It is certainly true that a person who wishes to pay for a couple packs of cigarettes could pull out one of his own teeth. On the other hand, a human slave is not necessarily worth 32 teeth (the number of teeth in the human skull) even if he still retains all of his teeth at the time of sale.
Below is a quick guide to values of standard items found in the wasteland:
10 rolls of toilet paper = 1 tooth
20 cigarettes (1 pack) = 1 tooth
4 litres of clean, pure water = 1 tooth
1 litre of gasoline = 1 tooth
1 weeks worth of travel rations = 1 tooth
3 delicious and nutritious restaurant-style meals = 1 tooth
1 sumptuous banquet = 1 tooth
12 pack of shitty beer = 1 tooth
6 pack of fine beer = 1 tooth
1 bottle of wine = 1 tooth
1 jug of moonshine = 1 tooth
100 rounds of .22 ammunition = 1 tooth.
10 rounds of 30-06, .308, or .44 Magnum ammo = 1 tooth
20 rounds of 5.56, 9mm, .45ACP or .38 special ammunition = 1 tooth
40 rounds of 7.62x39 ammo = 1 tooth
Wasteland guide = 1 tooth per day (plus food & water)
Bodyguard = 5-10 teeth per day
Standard first aid kit = 5 teeth
Session with a prostitute = 1-5 teeth.
1 dog = 20-40 teeth
1 reliable pack animal (yak, donkey) = 30 teeth
Inhaler of Piss-Aid rad absorption drug = 30 teeth
1 reliable mount (horse, camel) 50 teeth
Pistol = 20-40 teeth
Rifle = 20-40 teeth
Shotgun = 30-40 teeth
Professional assassination = 50 teeth and up
Human slave, servant = 30-60 teeth (plus any teeth still in skull)
Human slave, pleasure = 50-100 teeth (plus any teeth in skull)
For an easy, oversimplified conversion rate, $10 modern day = 1 tooth.
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Post by providence13 on Jul 30, 2013 7:08:14 GMT -8
Although there are real-life precedents, I've never seen teeth used as currency in a RPG before. Good job on the creativity. The exchange rates are interesting. I could adopt something like this for TME Aberatia controlled territories. They might use PSH/Ghost Mutant teeth. For the critique, it seems the only value is rarity. Sure this could be said of present day currency; I don't think US backs with a gold/silver standard any longer. This is a bone of some contention with economic political minded groups here in the States as it could be seen to make money relatively worthless. Instead of teeth I could see iron, steel or even tin coins. These could actually be processed into something useful if you had enough but processing might take skills now lost. Why use teeth in a PA setting? I like the fact that everyone starts off with a money bank, as it were. You can find teeth or take them from others. Older people will have less teeth on average and if you meet a grey haired person with most of their choppers, they must be financially/trade savvy. Teeth also are a stable method of transporting genetic information. Maybe there exists a high tech faction still around in your world that requires/studies mutations. Maybe they are known for trading goods (magic healing drugs, weapons, supplies..) with the mongrel humans and deviants trying to eke out an existence in the PA world. It's easier just to drill/scan a tooth than trying to net/bag/tag an entire test subject. Maybe they didn't start the tooth economy, but it is enforced if people spread the word that having teeth, any teeth are a commodity. The "star people" that descend on pillars of fire and want teeth so we value teeth. Maybe the star people have died out or no longer deal with people of PA Earth. The memory of teeth as power could still exist. Just some thoughts. Keep up the good work! |
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yrgael
New Member
Chillin at the Bohemian
Posts: 27 
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Post by yrgael on Oct 9, 2015 20:35:44 GMT -8
I watched a documentary called the "Littlest Doctor". It was about this kid that travelled around from village to village "healing people". His number one tool: a Coca Cola bottle on a string he wore around his neck for mixing medicine in.
We drink a bottle of water and chuck the bottle; but in a lot of the world that bottle will still be doing something for years to come.
I saw another about a blacksmith that made car parts in Africa. they were using hammer and anvil and tap and die for parts that we would pay sixty cents for. They burned like 4 trees, spent all day and made one bolt. The steel was recycled. they couldn't make steel, not even from iron.
People worry about cars and the oil being gone for gas. They haven't even considered that oil is where most of our plastics come from.
I was with a group that did medieval combat. Honestly, pound for pound, plastic is better protection. A friend made a scale vest of plastic. We, naturally, had to destroy it. It wouldn't cut, not machete or axe. It was resilient to .22 and shotgun shot. Bird shot could just stay home. It did pretty well on an 85 lbs. bow too.
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toddk
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by toddk on Nov 8, 2015 12:53:25 GMT -8
For valuable items, one main concept of value is 'something used to improve appearance'. Gold necklaces and jewelry were valued because they drew attention (and didn't corrode). Raffia cloth was used by the Lele, and camwood bars were used to create a red paste used as makeup. Both of those items were used to clothe (identifying you as a human and not as an animal) and beautify (and exceptional human).
So plastics are not just an industrial use, they are light, water-tight (great for carrying water and guiding rain), relatively strong, flexible, and for the transparent pieces allow one to stay dry/safe and still observe.
For buying/selling loot, one idea might be hiring a local merchant to handle the sales while your excavators perform the various digging operations. Perhaps 10% of the sales go to the merchant, so when the PCs get back to town after another dig the merchant lets them know how much money they made while exploring. Also while they are gone, the merchant is more likely to be able to take advantage of random lower prices, if the merchant has an idea of how long the PCs will be away.
So for every week they are exploring the merchant makes rolls on purchase/sales tables. Whichever of the rolls is most advantageous to the PCs will be the one used (for example, if the PCs tell the merchant that they will be gone for 3 weeks, and the merchant has orders to recharge their power clips, the merchant will make 3 rolls to determine recharge costs, and use whichever of the three is the lowest cost.)
However, if the PCs come back early and need the supplies ASAP, you take the amount of time remaining (in weeks), round up to the nearest whole number, and make that many rolls. The highest roll is the one that determines the price.
For example, if recharging a power cell in Array costs d100+150 sp, and the PCs think they will be away for three weeks. When they get back, the GM rolls 3 sets of D100 dice (for example getting 25, 50, and 75), and adding the lowest value (25) to the base cost. So while the PCS were gone, the merchant was able to get the power cell recharged at a price of 175 sp.
However if something happens so the PCs get back 10 days later, they need the power cell charged now. Since they were 1.5 weeks early, that is rounded up to 2. The GM makes two d100 rolls (33 and 66), and the cost to charge the power cell is 216 sp.
If the PCS take longer to get back, each additional 2 weeks allows another roll for sales/purchases. (I.e. the merchant sold a power cell charge to a visiting excavator, and was able to buy a cheaper charge later.)
The key is to find a trustworthy local merchant who will give you accurate reports on sales and costs. That might be the really difficult adventure.
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